What stimuli must I avoid during my reboot (did I relapse)?

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Kung FuRecovering porn addict:

Get this: When I see a poster on the bus station of a girl in a bikini, my boner doesn't react at all. If I deliberately search for it online and see it on my computer screen, I get one.

That tells me that it isn't really the image per se that's arousing for me, but that my addiction is deeply linked with my computer (which is my choice).

I don't have a problem with advertisement, as long as it is offline. Weird, right? (LINK)


My advice is to avoid actively seeking all artificial sexual stimuli during your reboot. If it's not a real person, just say no.

As odd as this may sound, there's no such thing as porn. The brain knows exactly what alcohol or heroin is, but the reward circuitry has no way of recognizing porn. Instead, higher portions of the brain relay nerve impulses associated with sights sounds, smells and memories to the reward circuit. The strength of these very complex signals determine the excitement levels measured by your reward circuit. What really matters are spikes of reward circuit dopamine (and other neurochemicals), not what's on the computer screen.

The key questions: Is your behavior reactivating sensitized addiction pathways, and are you overstimulating your already numbed dopamine system? (Read "Porn, Then & Now: Welcome to Brain Training" and  Why Do I Find Porn More Exciting Than A Partner? to better understand that it's more about brain training)

We receive daily questions about what's "approved", or what's a "relapse", or whether X, Y, or Z, will slow someone's reboot. Such questions cannot be answered. A better question is, "What type of brain training leads to addictive changes in my brain, and am I repeating it?"

In this regard, accidental exposure to something arousing is not a relapse. In fact, I seriously doubt any incidental images of anything, including hard core porn, could set one back. Sensitization occurs when an addict purposely pursues his addiction. Animal experiments show that actively choosing to take a drug wires up the brain differently from having it injected with no conditioned stimulus. Pursuing or working for the addictive drug causes sensitization - which is THE core addiction brain change. The animal associates taking the drug with its own deliberate action, and the brain wires accordingly.

Actively searching Facebook is activating sensitized addiction pathways and reinforcing your addiction. Bumping into hard-core images, then immediately closing the page is actually strengthening the willpower parts of your brain. If an alcoholic could easily stop after 1/2 glass of wine...he would have no problems...right? (See Exposure Response Prevention Therapy (extinction) for more). Avoid linking deliberate seeking with arousal. An accidental glimpse isn't chosen. However, dwelling on the image you glimpse, fantasizing about it later, or seeking other images because of it can be counterproductive.

The types of questions that constantly pop up involve, "Is it OK to....

  • Surf Facebook?
  • Watch R movies?
  • Surf pics of girls in swimsuits?
  • Check out real girls?
  • Fantasize about sex with real girls?

OR, "Did I relapse if.......

  • I saw a pop-up of porn?
  • Surfed youtube for hot videos?
  • I saw a picture of naked women?
  • Read an erotic story?
  • Visited a porn site for 2 minutes?
  • Played with myself while watching a PG-13 sex scene?
  • Had a wet dream?

The list is endless. First, wet dreams are not a relapse, so don't even go there. Second, you cannot apply the word relapse to natural rewards such as sex, eating food, or shopping. Recovering from porn addiction is not the same as recovering from addictions to alcohol or drugs. Chemical addictions are black and white. An alcoholic swears off drinking for life. Orgasm, sex, masturbation, sex scenes in movies, pictures of sexy women, will all continue to be a part of your life. If you believe you have relapsed - get over it - and get back on the no-porn horse.

Please don't ask if you need to reset your counter to day one. Counting days is purely psychological. What's happening in your brain is what's important. A very common question is "does this relapse set me back to day one?" or "have I lost all of what I gained?" Even though we cannot peer into your brain, the simple answer is no. The gains you made cannot be erased with one binge. Each time you restart, it should become easier, depending on the length of your abstinence. Keep in mind that nearly everyone who recovers from porn addiction relapses.

Sensitization

Why doesn't an alcoholic just take a few sips of beer? Because it will activate that same exact sensitized pathways for his alcohol addiction. A sensitized neural pathway is more than just a strong memory. Activation of sensitization shoves the reward circuitry into fifth gear, and loosens the brakes of the frontal cortex. Even if the alcoholic stops at 2 sips, the pathways are now reactivated and will continue to call to the rest of his brain for more. He will experience increased cravings and intrusive thoughts.

I find erotic stories can be worse than porn in some ways, as it takes much longer to read a story, which can lead to very long dopamine rushes. They are often broken up into multiple parts, which the author keeps building upon, leading to an endless need to keep returning for a fix.

You think binging for hours for that perfect shot in a video is pathetic? Imagine searching for that "perfect" scene in a sea of words. Looking for that one sentence in a 20 page story that will scratch that itch. Not in this story? How about the next one? The next one.. Years of my life have been wasted chasing the fix in erotic stories. *sigh*

The question you need to ask yourself is: "Do my behaviors or actions mimic how I used porn?" If so, then you may be reactivating sensitized  addiction pathways. Only you can answer this question. Facebook is a common example I hear about, where guys mimic the exact same MO (method of operation) as they did with porn use: searching, clicking, surfing in the quest for synthetic sexual novelty (not involving real people) in order to stimulate their desensitized brains. Or very simply - am I substituting artificial stimuli for the real deal?

Which scenario is more like porn addiction?

  1. Surfing dating site, while imagining sex with completely clothed females, as you click from picture to picture.
  2. An afternoon in a nudist colony?

 Number one, of course. Internet porn addiction is NOT about nakedness - its an addiction to novelty. Artificial novelty.

A simple bottom line on what to avoid:

  1. "Porn" - All types. If you need to ask, then the answer is, 'bad move.' Porn addiction is real simple: artificial vs real.
  2. Avoid behaviors that mimic YOUR porn addiction. Which usually means behaviors that substitute the synthetic and the two-dimensional for the real deal.
  3. Eliminating artificial or synthetic means don't engage in "cam to cam" or chat rooms.
  4. Surfing Facebook, YouTube, or dating sites for pictures and sexual stimuli is like an alcoholic switching to lite beer.
  5. Fantasizing about porn is nearly the same as watching it, as you are activating your brain's addiction-related pathways.
  6. Reading "erotic" stories counts as porn fantasy
  7. "What about fantasizing about real women?" It's hard to say. If you are simply replaying porn scenarios, then absolutely not. Read below about fantasy.

For some, cutting out real-life fantasy sped up the process and made it easier. However, there may come a time, during your reboot, where fantasizing about real-life partners is beneficial, and important for rewiring the brain to the "real world". This usually applies to younger guys with little sexual experience. (See: What about fantasizing during a reboot?  and this short video on fantasy & porn)

This guy finally figured out that 'peeking' at porn was what slowed down his recovery: Age 24 - ED cured, even when I thought it would never happen (20 months)

What is "allowed", and encouraged, is contact with a real-life partner. Smooching, touching, fooling around, maybe even gentle intercourse Many guys suggest avoiding orgasm with a partner, but it really depends on your goals, if you have ED, and what stage you are in the process.  Erections are great, but should not be forced through vigorous stimulation. If they happen, they happen.

You have spent years allowing your brain to view anything it wants, and to revel in any sexual fantasy it can conjure up. There's nothing morally wrong with fantasy. But now, you are attempting to unravel years of brain training induced by unbridled porn use. There's also nothing wrong with building mental muscle, and choosing where to direct your mind.

Wherever water flows it creates ruts. Where is your mental water flowing? That's your lesson for the day, grasshoppers.


THREADS - The "No Arousal" Method - Celibacy of Body AND Mind

ED - After recovering for 8 months I have finally been able to have sex consistently

"Upon the beginning of recovery I only shunned porn but didn't shun sexual images and fantasies. This really slowed me down."


THREAD - What do you consider porn?

(One answer) I consider everything to be porn.

What's the point of browsing a Facebook gallery full of women in yoga pants?

What's the point of watching YouTube videos of girls dancing in shorts?

What's the point of sexting, webcams, phone sex, fantasizing constantly, reading erotic stories, browsing dating profiles (without the intention of contacting them), typing pornstar names on Google image search, checking out girls on social media sites, etc?

All of these activities will increase your urge to masturbate. They reinforce the very same pathways you're trying to weaken. They keep your mind occupied with sexual thoughts, tits, asses, fucking, getting off, hot chicks, etc. They make rebooting much more harder and painful. They serve no real meaningful purpose.

You either try to get laid (approach girls, set up dates, flirt with women, contact friends, go out regularly) or you do something completely unrelated to sex (work, study, exercise, hang out, watch movies).

This grey area of constantly checking out chicks online will accomplish nothing. The whole idea is to move away from that artificial/fantasy world and into the real world.

I'm not saying that you're "relapsing" if you check out some bikini galleries online. All I'm saying is that you should treat them as porn and stay away from them. They are an obstacle to our ultimate purpose (real girls, real sex, real relationships).


A more productive view of so-called relapses

Dear r/nofap, how many times have you relapsed?

I'll start.

I began in July ( about 3 and half months ago )

  • I relapsed a grand total of 60-70 times.
  • Longest streak 4 days. ( I'm proud of it )

Why am I writing this?

  • It takes a lot of work. It is mentally excruciating. It is not easy. I am no where close to succeeding or accomplishing this.
  • But I feel stronger and better at this than before. 2 days is bliss for me at the moment. I'm really looking forward to 30 days. The mental clarity is amazing.
  • This month. I'm feeling confident about 7 days. I've never felt this confident before.
  • I believe the journey is important, it slowly strengthens the person.
  • Understanding and accepting the unbearable feeling and being strong enough to control it. I'm just curious. Who else relapsed this much?

Another guy:

It took me a year and 5 months, until now, to reach the 90 day mark. Any time I got on a worthwhile streak, I just felt like I wanted to explode sexually. Yes the "superpowers" were there - energy, focus, alert, more chatty with people, etc, but I was horny all the time. Sure libido was good, but it was ridiculous, to the point where I couldn't focus. I was being more assertive with asking girls out and such, but still, all I wanted from girls was sex.

I realized I was cheating myself. Yes I quit porn, but I was substituting it with other sexual images. "Top 10 bikini" whatever, r4r, craigslist dating, gonemild. All just one click or thought away from relapsing, which I did often. On my last streak however, I went cold turkey from all that crap. Even would try to make efforts to avoid fantasy with girls in real life I knew. (Allowing that to happen almost cost me a friendship a few years back).

And it worked my friends. You have to stop the internet stream of oversexualized media. It's ridiculous, and even now when going to a store, you can't even check out without seeing supermodels on the magazines. We have more access to images of girls in a day that any king had in their lifetime. It's sad, and the only way out is to walk away from the garbage. Doing this, at around day 40-50(?) it was all downhill. I was starting to wake up and had 0 urge to M. Even if I did go into zombie fap mode in the morning, nothing in me felt the need to come to orgasm. And this was the biggest relief I've felt in years, YEARS. No 5 minute fap session can ever compare to the feeling of waking up and having a clear, easy mind, free of crazy urges. I love it. You may call this flatlining, but it is called "NORMAL." Life is more than the ability to get a boner. Seriously guys, it'll come back when you find the right person. Age 28 - more energy, focus, alert, more chatty with people, new relationship


A warning to not binge

A relapse does not mean a complete reset! Don't hurt yourself further by binging.


Thread on NoFap about replacing "porn" with other sexual stimuli:

The dangers of half-ass mode

Hi guys I just wanted to share with you one thing that I've discovered recently about the nature of porn/masturbation addiction.

I've been doing NoFap for about 1,5 half years now. I've started like most of us - tried to go 90 days, failed, tried again, failed again, tried yet again, failed yet again. After a couple of failures I decided that instead of going the hard mode I'll take an easier way so I decided that I will never ever fap to porn, and watch as little porn as I can. And I made 90 days on this commitment, then decided to continue and at the end of the day I only fapped to porn two times from September 2012. (As a comparison I fapped to porn each day in 2011, sometimes I even fapped twice a day)

Until recently I've been very proud of myself and I felt like a boss. I thought that I was able to get rid of my addiction, I thought I was healthy and fine.

Then it started to dawn on me that I was wrong and I was deluding myself. I realized that I simply substituted new different types of addictive erotica for porn.

It is true that I no longer watched porn movies, but they were replaced with a whole new group of other stimuli - I started to read erotic stories, I started to visit chat rooms looking for people to talk to about sex, I started to view some pics on gonewild or read blog about sexual life of other people. I was also fantasizing about other women. Since I was thinking that fapping without porn is ok I sometimes fapped to this new materials. At the end of the day I realized last month that I'm starting to fap as frequently as I did in 2011 - I almost fapped twice or three times a week in July. "Eh, no reason to worry - I was fooling myself - this is just innocent fapping, no porn involved I will be fine".

Then recently I've realized that there is a reason to worry. I've noticed that this new types of erotica have a similar influence on my brain as porn movies. I also noticed that the quality of my sex life with my wife started to drop again, I started to have some problems I had when I was on my porn diet. I started to feel uncomfortable about sex and intimacy.

In a way then I noticed that I've simply rewired my brain to different, equally addictive, stimuli. I rewired my brain from porn to things that appeared "innocent"

The following account highlights that the method of delivery may be as compelling as the content. Surfing for stimulation, is surfing for stimulation.

I'm 28. I have porn induced ED, and I'm anxious about either not getting it up at all, or getting it up 50-60% and cumming too soon. I have a low self esteem, and even when I'm able to ask some girl on a date, I fear what will I do when it comes to sex. I have fear of intimate contact. I want it, but I see it also as a possible source of great disappointment.

I always thought that my problems had something to do with my PMO habit, but until recently a had no real evidence. I sometimes searched web, looking for a proof that porn is addictive, but I found nothing. Then, one day, I randomly browsed the net and accidentally found yourbrainonporn.com and suddenly everything started to make sense. I saw myself in lot of the stories. I saw the same behavior patterns, the same feelings. It was pretty clear that I was addicted to porn.

The same day, I decided to try my own reboot, in order to rewire my brain and finally start to have a life. So I did. I started to journal, to exercise regularly, to wake and get up in the same time every day...I took it very seriously. In addition I was meditating (not related to rebooting I started more than year before).

Withdrawal symptoms:

First few days there were strong cravings and horniness, but I was so determined that I was easily able to get over them, even when I needed to be in front of the computer for several hours a day (I work from home).

Week 2-3: lethargy, tiredness, very low self-esteem, inferiority feelings, no morning wood, low libido, mood swings, anxiety.

Week 4: symptoms started to weaken a bit, libido comes to normal, mood swings all over the place, but some days were not so bad.

Week 5: good and bad days are 50:50. Some days I experienced also some great feelings with a lot of energy flowing. I was getting used to all those mood swings (knowing that when I feel bad it will pass soon).

Week 6: good and bad days are 70:30, some urges to look at porn, but manageable. Mood pendulum swinging with lower amplitude.

By week 6, everything looked better. I got morning wood regularly (no wet dreams). My self esteem was slowly rising and I was confident enough to try my luck on a date, to see how it would go. So I borrowed my brother's camera, made some pics of myself and registered on three dating sites.

So far so good, but there was a danger which, at first, I hadn't seen. You see, dating sites are a lot like porn sites. You can filter search some girls from your town, single, between 23 and 30yo ...there are a lot of them. And there are a lot of thumbnails with their photos, and when you click the thumbnail there are galleries of their photos and some of the pics are pretty hot (although not naked, but after 6 weeks of not PMO they are sufficient).

And what does a lizard brain think about a lot of hot female pictures? That's right!...potential mates...release dopamine! Very soon I was visiting the dating sites several times a day to look "what's new", which led to relapse on day 40 :-(

After that, I was struggling for one month to get myself back on track with rebooting. There were relapses every few days, at least two of them with porn. I realised I had to stop visiting those dating sites immediately. It was hard, because I was already chatting with some girls, and had a prospect of at least three dates. Nevertheless, I blocked all the sites.

Now I'm back on track and this is my day 16 of no PMO. First week I experienced some cravings, but I managed.

Second week there were another bunch of symptoms that I hadn't experienced before: severe anxiety (fear of losing my mind), depression, feelings of worthlessness, whole week-long flu (which may or may not be related to my reboot).

Yesterday evening, almost all of this symptoms subsided, although I still feel weak and kind of sluggish. Because of the flu, I cannot exercise and I'm too lazy to meditate (although I managed to push myself into 10min of meditation yesterday and it seems it helped). Nevertheless, I'm really happy that my depression is over.

Now, I experience almost no cravings, but I have some sexual fantasy several times a day, which I'm trying to evade as soon as it comes. About socializing and meeting women: I'm looking forward to a second level of yoga class I was visiting earlier. It should be starting soon. There are a lot of pretty and interesting women. Socializing in real life is far better and more beneficial than on the net. It's one of my goals now.


Another guy:

I was exchanging some text massages with my friend regarding explicit sex positions and how she would like sex with me. After such conversations I felt relaxed. But the immediate next day I would feel worse in terms of depression and fatigue (neurochemical hangover). It took me a long time to understand me that 100 fantasies = 1orgasm/1porn clip viewing. Fantasies ultimately give you the same dopamine rush, but in small dosages. So if you want a quick reboot, avoid all stimuli, even if they are with a real women!!!


30 Day Story: Lots of improvements, want more!

Prior to that was a streak of about 20 days and one of about 10 days. Nothing else significant- resolves of less than a few days with long relapses.

Perhaps related (and perhaps not) is that I gave up/deleted/blocked porn about 7 months ago. I was still using erotic fiction/images/imagination up until this 30 day steak because I thought they weren't as harmful. But I've come to the conclusion that erotic fiction had an even worse effect on my well being than porn did, based entirely on the time it took to "recover" from ED.


A husband with ED issues during sex:

If it is not directly time for sex, do not do ANYTHING that:

  • feels good on erogenous zones
  • gives you that yummy feeling in your tummy that you can only get when being erotically stimulated
  • excites you in any kind of sexual way
  • makes your heart beat / breathing faster in any kind of sexually exciting way

Because I believe all of the above are evidence that you are bathing your dopamine receptors in their beloved juice and serving to keep them 'full' such that they never get a chance to get 'hungry.'

If AND ONLY IF I let them get hungry for about a week, I can get hard, stay hard, last long, and finish hard. And the great news is that I have repeated this experiment now for a good number of iterations and it has not failed me yet. I've been stumbling on it for nearly 5 months now...and the only thing that has worked consistently is to leave it the fuck alone... "it" being defined in the bullet points above.

My best advice to anyone suffering from PMO-ED is if you want your dick to work... ONLY use your sexual gratification systems directly for PIV (penis in vagina) and ONLY as often as your real libido will accept (which you have no choice but to discover through trial and error.) Forget about looking for ways to get gratification AT ALL and FOREVER other than PIV, PIM, PIA, or wherever you want to put your Penis on or in your SO. We are addicts... There's no such thing as a 'little'

Comments

Its really true what is said!
I try to avoid pictures of sexual contend on the internet. Then a friend of mine send me a link to some funny pictures but there where also some pictures of hot girl having some action i could feel the rush to my head immediately and i started clicking on the next picture and the next. At that moment i realized i was doing something wrong immediately i stopped and went out of the room. I felt light headed and strangely focused. This was after my first weak of no PMO. I have to say its really hard quitting and being horny all the time and then all the other symptoms. I dont know if these encounter set you back ?? but lets keep going!!!

I'm in my twenty third day now , No PMO at all . But today I noticed that when I browse facebook I've been paying more attention than before to check personal albums & photos of new people that I might come across ! . Remembering what I've read here , I found that it seems a lot like surfing facebook for stimulating pics ! . Although there are NO sexual pictures on facebook , But I think that the enthusiasm I have each time I look closely to pictures of new people is more likely to release dopamine in the same way porn does . so I stopped that habit .

And for fantasizing real people , I've read different points of view . Some find it healthy and others find it not useful . I guess in the first month it's better to be away from all kinds of fantasy . After that things will slowly took the right places . It's all about your brain and type as a person . Mediation can be a real beneficial friend during the whole process .

Stay well all Brothers . It's a road you must travel to reach your eternal satisfaction . come on , Piece of cake , right ?

I can't thank you enough for this site !

Ok so im 15 yes i know im a little young and i did do the test and i do have porn related e.d ... I stoped PMO for four months never watches porn never masturbated in those four months... 4 years i was an addict but on to the question... Ok so today i wanted to try something ... So layed down relaxed and cleared my mind and tried to foucs on achieving an erection... So then i rubbed my self and started masturbating... The i got some oil and continued... I was focusing on feeling and erection no fantasy no thoughts of porn nothing... Then i did that for about 20-30 mins tops avoiding orgasm... Next thing you know i just said let me release... Now i feel bad so did i relapse... Only time i orgasmed through my recovery was wet dreams this was the first time in four months i have masturbated.. no fantasy no porn just feeling ...

As I pointed out in the FAQ, "relapse" cannot be applied to masturbation or sex.

Stopping all masturbation and orgasm for 4 months, at age 15, is rare indeed. The question that matters is - how was your erection?

Have you seen this FAQ? Started on Internet porn and my reboot (ED) is taking too long 

Better when i got the oil i guess it didnt stay to long maybe because of the wet dream i had 3 days ago whiched drained me but it was better than it was about 4months and 4 years of abbuse ... One thing that i know is from not having an erection for so long made it impossible to get one on my own... So do you think there is something i can try to wire myself and get full erections on my own ?

What you want wire to is the real thing. Thinking about girls, of course. Do you think you should be checked out by a good urologist, just to eliminate everything?

And they all say the same its all in my head and over doing something causes these types of problems... Trust me i defined the problem i was a huge addict to porn and masturbation and i started very young ... I read everything and it defined my problem t o the last detail... What made me stop completly was my girlfriend and when i failed my first attempt i knew i had to get better soon ... But my main focus is to get my mindset and relearn all i have lost during this terrible addiction and get back a strong firmer erection and libido to the real things.. i dont get out much and i dont see my gf alot so rewiring maybe hard but ill try ... I had veryy strong porn abuse so hopefully i can focus

seeing as how this is a dopamine issue, should i stay away from video games during my reboot? i was reading that dopamine also gets released from video gaming and I am not sure as to whether it affects the whole reboot process or not (the game in question is modern warfare 3) I find that the ps3 is a very good way to not use my computer but I do get a nice buzz from the game sometimes, so im wondering if that is counterproductive for my reboot?

Answers to Questions From Reddit NoFap - then scroll down to #4) RetroYouth

Hello,
I went on without PMO for 3 weeks after which I relapsed for several times over short reboots between ten days to one week for 3 months. Now, again I have succeeded in reaching week 4. I do know that I have improved since I have been struggling with my reboot for 1 year myself before I knew this site. But, today I used youtube and saw some hot scenes which took control of me and I started masturbating. After 5 minutes of stimulation I got back to my senses and struggled and finally stopped my activity without ejaculation. Did I relapse? im asking because I hate to start back from day 1 :-(

Read it again, and see that such questions have no meaning. Focus on your accomplishements and long-term goals, and relax. Rebooting is all about healing the brain, not artificial numbers.

good luck

I do agree it is about healing the brain. But keeping a journal and maintaining a counter is the best motivating tool for the brain to keep it going. You'll feel more in control of your habits if you are completely monitoring about your activities. This way you ll know how many times you relapsed inbetween each reboot and if the record is as long as one year as in my case, you can even plot a graph and see the improvement. Personally I feel that the journal i have been keeping has helped me a lot in reaching this stage from where I was one year back. And I have come to a conclusion that the only way for a complete reboot quickly is to completely stop thinking about women in general and concentrate on work for 2 months. Even becoming more religious helps. I did relapse today! But I am starting again from this second again knowing that I have better control of my brain after this recent reboot. Thanks for the information. I am sure ill be sharing my experience soon and ill try my best to help others through my experience.

" A man is what he thinks about all day long "
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

I'm sbout 6 weeks into this no POM, and I've just had a minor relapse, which included looking at some hardcore porn for about 3 minutes, but without masturbation. Naturally, my faltering here has had an impact on my confidence in my ability to deal and succeed in this, but also in one way it has slightly emboldened me. From looking at the porn on this relapse, I managed to achieve a rock hard erection, which would imply that the abstinence up until now has had positive effect, because even hardcore porn wouldn't have allowed me to achieve an erection at all before beginning POM six weeks prior, let alone a rock hard erection. I realize that this positive erectile reaction is a double edged sword, as I have reignited my desire and impulse for looking at porn, but now that I know for sure that the abstinence is working in the long run, then I just need to employ a bit more willpower.

From reading this, I would also strongly advise against dating sites. As it happened I was already signed up to a dating site before starting No POM six weeks ago, and at first I didn't think it was a problem, but then I quickly resorted to using it as a substitute for looking at porn, and it definitely impeded my progress, and perhaps served as a gateway back to my brief, but hopefully, final lapse.

Further, I find minimal fantasizing is also key, especially if you're transferring old porn fantasies into present situations. Best remedy to this is of course to occupy and stimulate the mind and body in any other non sexual pursuits.

I made the mistake of going to tumblr and seeing some nude photos of a woman. While they weren't hardcore, and rather tasteful I know that you have said any form of porn is a relapse. I only viewed about 6-10 photos. Could that be considered a relapse?

Since you are on the right FAQ, you know my views on the word relapse. Can't use it for natural rewards.

The question above - is it real or is it artificial? You are clearly using a screen, therefore it is mimicking your addiction behavior

So I've been pondering that link you gave me and I wanted to ask if the dopamine rush received from masturbation could harm a reboot and if so how badly? I mean, isn't it natural for people to masturbate? Just wondering why is it that even if you never use an ounce of the fake stuff that masturbation is hinted to as harmful.

The dopamine rush from any natural reward isn't harmful.

But that's a different subject than what effect masturbation can have on a reboot. If you have ED, it can slow the process. If you have an addiction to porn it can set off cravings and relapse.

Just wondering why is it that even if you never use an ounce of the fake stuff that masturbation is hinted to as harmful.

YBOP isn't about masturbation. I know it's confusing, as we have written a few articles pointing out the myths that masturbation is a health aid. But that's different from saying it is harmful.

YBOP doesn't support abstinence as a lifestyle.

PS - someone just posted this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AeZn6MvZZg&feature=colike

No, I understand what you are saying, I know YBOP doesn't rag on masturbation or recommend an abstinent lifestyle.

I know with ED any orgasm slows you down, but what about those of us who don't have ED? That is what I am really wondering.

A large section under rebooting is devoted to this question. There are links to other forums weighing in on this.

I see a lot on here about addiction with playing videogames but not a lot about watching tv. I do not want to slow down my recovery at all so a long with stopping pmo i am also stoping anything that I found to be addictive(which there are a few things I am giving up because of this). My question is I watch a lot of tv now a days prob around 40 or more hours a week. I never considered it addictive and the number of hours has been much lower at other times but now I dont have a job currently so it has went up from me being home a lot. Do you think this is an addiction for me? I never thought of it until now but when im out and i dont watch tv much at all one day i dont feel like i miss it or anything. I am already cutting out all the shows i watch because i dont want to see a hot girl and then that make it harder on me and cause me to fail my reboot. But what if i was to watch 4 sports games on tv a week(i usaully watch a sports game with my friends once a week and then i would be watching the rest at my house).This would amount to around 12 hours a week of tv could be a little more or less. I really like sports and keeping up with my local teams and during commercials I am going to shut the tv off so i dont see any hot girls. I already plan on doing a lot of socialzing and other activites during the day anyways. My question is would watching 12 hours a week of sports mess with my dopamine? I just didnt really understand much about how tv can effect recovery. I was wondering if you could give a specific answer to my questions. Im guessing im just being paranoid that watching twelve hours of sports on tv a week can not mess with dopamine levels and slow my recovery down but i want to make sure, as im trying very hard to successfully reboot.Btw im a guy in my early 20s who has porn related ED so i am rebooting to cure this. Today is day 1 i have had many unsuccessfull attempts in the past but im encouraged because i have made it a little farther each time lately. This is a fantastic sight btw a ton of great articles.

 I say this because guys so focused on dopamine/dopamine receptors. The most important brain change is sensitization, which involves glutamate.

Anyhow- alcoholics recover while smoking, eating junk food, drinking coffee, and watching TV - so stick with your plan, and see what happens.

So what im getting from your post is that to stop stressing over little things like that and worry about the big picture which in my case is stopping pmo. And that watching the bit of tv that I stated would not be harmful whatsoever. I typed in the title of your response to google and was able to find something else by gary saying the same thing you replied. Someone asked him about video games, junk food, caffeine ect and his response was this.

Submitted by gary on Wed, 2012-03-14 06:11

Addictions are a lot more than dopamine dysregulation. Second, a whole lot more is yet to be learned.

It appears that while all addictions involve overlapping changes, each addiction involves unique circuits within the reward circuit. Caffiene's effects on the dopamine system are minor.

In essence the fewer addictions one has, the greater the enjoyment from natural rewards. But I would just address the porn addiction before tackling anything else.

Thanks again for the quick reply and answering my question i apreciate it ,will make it easier on me knowing I dont have to stress out about watching a sports game on tv every now and then.

You write that you shouldn't engage in cam to cam.

Does this also include webcam chat, with girls you are dating? I'm not talking about some nude stuff. Just webcam chat with a girl in regular clothing, like a tank top and jeans.

I have one in mind, whom I've dated and kissed, but she's in another country now, and she want's to be on cam.

Would I have to avoid webcam chat forever? Cos if it has an effect similar to pornography, well, then I would need to avoid it permanently for the same reasons as pornography I guess.

I am just referring to cam to cam sexual sites.

I am interested to hear what you think about attending strip clubs while abstaining from porn and rebooting, as I haven't seen any direct mention of it in any of your articles or the comments. I haven't looked at porn in almost nine months, but I have been to strip clubs three or four times in that period. On the one hand, the stripping and dancing is obviously meant to produce arousal, and they are doing things that you probably wouldn't witness in a normal sexual encounter. You could also say that there's a certain amount of novelty there as you are seeing several different topless/nude women in a single night. On the other hand, these are real people that you can talk to (and sometimes even touch) that aren't pixels on a screen, which would seem to fit in with your "real over synthetic" paradigm. I can't imagine that these clubs could have a desensitizing effect comparable to hardcore porn use, especially if attendance is rare, but it is something I've thought about. Do you think strip clubs should be avoided, or could they actually be beneficial in helping to rewire arousal to real people?

Long story short, I started masturbating for the first time when I was 13 (I just turned 21). I didn't even know it was masturbation there was no sexuality associated with it iwas just rubbing my self ;next thing you know I busted and that's when I realized what I was doing.
I did some research and found out I guess masturbation isn't all that bad so I indulged. Next came the porn which even without finding about the NOFap community, I realized it was taking a toll on me socially and sexually so I always had some motivation to stop. I did try a couple times in the past. the most I went was about 13 days. The first time I had sex I was about 15-16 and that morning I masturbated and it rendered the sex really boring I was limp and wasn't enjoying it at all so I also want to know if the combination of both on the loss of my v card might have hard wired my brain into some shit.
Anyway, I can see that my porn addiction actually has turned into a sex addiction because I now go to see prostitutes every now and then. Last week, on my birthday I went to go see 3 hookers in a 24 hour span. I even paid for a 3 some 2 days later and jacked off later that night (that was 8 days ago). I kinda snapped out of it and I was watching some shit about stealth seduction (Richard la ruisa) and it mentioned not to masturbate and that's how I landed here. Now apart from hookers (I would say I frequent them any where from once to four times a month, for the past couple months when this hole thing started), I am a sexually active person, I have a couple fuck buddies (not hookers). The last time I had sex was 4 days ago ( and it was pretty good ). I am also a chronic weed smoker (average once to 5 times a day). Now since I started my reboot my question would be exactly this. What stimuli must I avoid during my reboot ? Should I stop seeing my partners? Would seeing a hooker (which is probably also an addiction I need to tend to) break my reboot ? Am I simply to avoid orgasm altogether? How bout weed ? Would smoking weed render my reboot obsolete since they both affect the dopamine receptors ? Would I in fact have to quit porn (obviously), smoking weed and as well quit orgasm during my recovery ?! Also how can I know if im fantasazing about porn or not while i'm having sex because I know my ED is a different one... I am simply very hit or very miss when it comes to intercourse.

Btw thanks for the inspiration

What are your goals? If its to recover from ED, then no porn, porn fantasy, and maybe little or no orgasms. But orgasm is an individual choice,

If your goal is to stop using prostitues and to get a hold of your compulsive behaviors, that's another level. I suggest looking under the support page for forums. Talk to guys going through the same thing as you.

good luck

I understand watching YouTube videos of girls is bad but what about of basketball? For example: watching dunk videos and musi videos (no women) gets me hyped and probably a dopamine rush because I like the music etc. my heart starts beating... Is this okay?

Addiction is more than dopamine. Just stop porn porn fantasy and stick with the real deal.

Would you say dopamine is 25% of the issue when it come to PMO? More or less? How does PMO's effect on dopamine relate to Adderall, Caffeine, and other CNS stimulants?

You can't give dopamine or any neurotransmitter a percentage. It cold be conceived as 100% neuroplasticity which equals

  1. making new connections,
  2. strengthening certain connections
  3. weakening other connections

How does PMO's effect on dopamine relate to Adderall, Caffeine, and other CNS stimulants?

You can't lump drugs together. each has it's own unique effects. What you can say that drug addictions lead to high dopamine for cues associated with drug, and generally lower base line dopamine.

It's helpful to understand the basics of brain rewiring and addiction, but it's not helpful to over analyze or extrapolate. Just follow that path of those who went before you.

 

Okay I'll just not worry about it as much. Thank you

Had a wet dream a week ago and that day i couldnt even have an erection
i was sacred as i am only 21 :/
searched the internet and finally landed here
i can say that i was into porn for 4-5 years but the extent of damage that it will cause to us was a bit disturbing
i saw about reboot and rewiring and have been rebooting since 13/7/14 i also have been spending more time with my girlfriend. During this time(the whole week ) my morning wood was completely absent but i did observe i was getting erection when i was around my girlfriend so i felt a lil relieved
today i.e 19/07/2014 i woke up to a morning wood and it felt good
later i touched my penis and it was hard again no fantasy just a touch and i didnt even think anything and it was erect today
guys is my ed gone ?? i am definitely gonna follow the reboot for a total 120 days but any advice shall be taken into consideration

regular_indian

an answer on YBOP. I suggest looking under the support tab for forums where guys discuss porn-induced ED.